هل العلامة اوريجانوس نادي بان المتألم في إشعياء 53 هو الشعب اليهودي؟

[Mary Naeem]

هل العلامة اوريجانوس نادي بان المتألم في إشعياء 53 هو الشعب اليهودي؟

الشبهة

في موضوع اشعياء 53 الذي نؤمن به انه عن المسيح بوضوح وأيضا هذا ما امن به اليهود القدامى فراباي يهودي حديث الذي ينادي بان اشعياء 53 هو الشعب اليهودي فيقول ردا على من ان هذا الكلام اختراع راشي في القرن الحادي عشر لان راشي كان ضد الحروب فهو حاول جاهدا لرفض أي جذور يهودية في العهد القديم للمسيح. فيقول هذا الراباي أن اوريجانوس قال ان هذا ايمان اليهود في كتابه ضد كالسيس كونترا سالسم

الرد

الحقيقة المسيحيين لا يقولوا ان اول من قال هذا هو راشي فهو رأي خطأ واضح ان قاله قلة من اليهود وبدأ في زمن العلامة اوريجانوس يخالف اغلب الراباوات اليهود وهذا الرأي الخطأ تمسك به راشي ونشره فقط. فراشي نشر أفكار كثيرة وتفسيرات كثيرة خطأ ضد المسيحية لعداؤه الشديد المعلن للمسيحية ولكن في هذه النقطة هو نقل رأي خطأ. ولكن الحقيقة كلام العلامة اوريجانوس الذي اقتطعه الراباي فيه أمور خطيرة ندرسها معا

اما الاقتطاع الذي قام به الراباي هو به إشكالية لانه لم يقدم ما قال العلامة اوريجانوس وهذا هو الفصل كامل

Chapter LV. Origen Against Celsus.

Now I remember that, on one occasion, at a disputation held with certain Jews, who were reckoned wise men, I quoted these prophecies; to which my Jewish opponent replied, that these predictions bore reference to the whole people, regarded as one individual, and as being in a state of dispersion and suffering, in order that many proselytes might be gained, on account of the dispersion of the Jews among numerous heathen nations.

انا أتذكر الان ان في مناسبة في خلاف أقيم مع بعض اليهود الذين كانوا يحسبون من الرجال الحكيمين واقتبست هذه النبوات التي أجاب عليها نظيري اليهودي ان هذه النبوات تحمل إشارة الى كل الناس وتشير إليهم كفرد واحد وانه في حالة التشتت والمعاناة من اجل ان العديد من الأمور قد تكتسب بسبب تشتت اليهود بين العديد من الأمم الوثنية

(ملحوظة ان العلامة اوريجانوس في القرن الثالث الذي تكلم كثيرا مع يهود ويعرف العبرية جيدا اول مرة يسمعوا هذا التفسير الغريب الغير منطقي أي ان التفسير المعتاد ان هذا الاصحاح عن المسيا بل الهرطوقي الذي يرد عليه اوريجانوس هو يعرف التفسير اليهودي التقليدي ان الاعداد عن المسيا فاوريجانوس لم يقول ان هذا هو التفسير اليهودي بل وضح انه رأي جديد غريب خطأ)

نكمل

And in this way he explained the words, “Thy form shall be of no reputation among men;” and then, “They to whom no message was sent respecting him shall see;” and the expression, “A man under suffering.” Many arguments were employed on that occasion during the discussion to prove that these predictions regarding one particular person were not rightly applied by them to the whole nation.

وبهذه الطريقة فسر الاعداد، "لا يكون لشكل سمعة بين الرجال" وبعدها "الذين له لا رسالة أرسلت خاصة به ترى" وتعبير "الرجل تحت المعاناة" استخدمت حجج كثيرة في هذه المناسبة في خلال النقاش لاثبات ان هذه النبوات هي عن واحد محدد ولا تطبق بحق على الامة كلها.

(ملحوظة: ان تفسير اليهودي في القرن الثالث هذا يخالف أيضا تفسير راشي وتفسير الرابي المتكلم الحديث فقلة من اليهود في زمن اوريجانوس قالوا ان المتالم هو عن الشعب اليهودي ولم يقولوا انه عن العالم يكلم اليهود)

And I asked to what character the expression would be appropriate, “This man bears our sins, and suffers pain on our behalf;” and this, “But He was wounded for our sins, and bruised for our iniquities;” and to whom the expression properly belonged, “By His stripes were we healed.” For it is manifest that it is they who had been sinners, and had been healed by the Saviour’s sufferings (whether belonging to the Jewish nation or converts from the Gentiles), who use such language in the writings of the prophet who foresaw these events, and who, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, applied these words to a person.

وانا سالت (اوريجانوس) ما هي الخاصية التي تجعل التعبير مناسب، "هذا الرجل يحمل معاصينا، ويعاني الالام لاجلنا" وهذا "ولكنه مجروح لاجل معاصينا ومسحوق لاجل أثامنا" ولمن هذه التعبير ينتمي صحيحا "بجلدته شفينا" لانه من الواضح انهم هم الخطاة وتم شفائهم من قبل الام المخلص (سواء هم ينتموا للامة اليهودية او تحولوا من الامميين) من الذي يستخدم لغة كهذه في كتابات النبي الذي سبق فرأى هذه الاحداث، ومن الذي تحت تأثير الروح القدس طبق هذه الكلمات على شخص.

(ملحوظة أخرى هامة ان ترجمة الكلام العبري هو يطابق الترجمة العربي في انه بالمفرد والكلمة معاصي وليس امراض والعلامة اوريجانوس واليهود والمهرطق كلهم متفقين على ان الكلام بالمفرد والكلمة معاصي واثام)

But we seemed to press them hardest with the expression, “Because of the iniquities of My people was He led away unto death.” For if the people, according to them, are the subject of the prophecy, how is the man said to be led away to death because of the iniquities of the people of God, unless he be a different person from that people of God?

ولكن يبدو اننا نضغط عليهم أقوى بتعبير "بسبب اثم شعبي سيق بعيدا للموت" فلو كان الشعب حسب كلامهم (اليهود) هم موضوع النبوة، من هو الرجل الذي قيل عنه سيق للموت من أجل خطايا شعب الله، الا لو كان شخص مختلف عن شعب الله؟

(ملحوظة يقصد ضرب او قتل من اجل ذنب شعبي. والحقيقة سؤال العلامة اوريجانوس هو سؤال في مقتل)

And who is this person save Jesus Christ, by whose stripes they who believe on Him are healed, when “He had spoiled the principalities and powers (that were over us), and had made a show of them openly on His cross?”31763176 [Col. ii. 15. S.] At another time we may explain the several parts of the prophecy, leaving none of them unexamined. But these matters have been treated at greater length, necessarily as I think, on account of the language of the Jew, as quoted in the work of Celsus.

فهو يوضح من اين اتى راشي بهذا الفكر الخطأ هو من مهرطقين بدأ كلامهم في القرن الثالث. أي ان هذا ليس هو الفكر اليهودي الصحيح القديم.

وعرفنا ان من كلام اوريجانوس ان بداية هذا الرأي الخطأ كان في القرن الثالث وهو أيضا يختلف عما قاله راشي والراباي الحديث. وأيضا عرفنا من كلام اوريجانوس ان النص الذي نعرفه بالمفرد هو الصحيح. وعرفنا ان اوريجانوس وضح لهم خطأ هذا الكلام لانه لو هو حمل ذنب الشعب والمقصود بالشعب هم شعب الله اليهود اذا من هو هذا الفرد الا المخلص الرب يسوع المسيح؟

اما عن العلامة اوريجانوس فهو اقتبس كثيرا من هذا الاصحاح مؤكد انه عن المسيح وان الفكر التقليدي ان هذا الكلام عن المسيا

فالعلامة اوريجانوس تكلم كثيرا في هذا الاصحاح بل واقتبس منه كثيرا مؤكدا انه عن المسيح

فمثلا من رسالته

The Word Appears in Different Forms; The Time of His Coming in Glory.

But if you will understand the differences of the Word which by “the foolishness of preaching”57445744 1 Cor. i. 21. is proclaimed to those who believe, and spoken in wisdom to them that are perfect, you will see in what way the Word has the form of a slave to those who are learning the rudiments, so that they say, “We saw Him and He had no form or beauty.”57455745 Isa. liii. 2. But to the perfect He comes “in the glory of His own Father,”57465746 Matt. xvi. 27.

وأيضا

The Coming of the Son of Man in Glory.

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of His own Father with His angels.”57375737 Matt. xvi. 27. Now, indeed, the Son of man has not come in His glory; “for we saw Him, and He had no form nor beauty; but His form was dishonoured and defective compared with the sons of men; He was a man in affliction and toil, and acquainted with the enduring of sickness, because His face was turned away, He was dishonoured and not esteemed.”57385738 Isa. liii. 2, 3. And it was necessary that He should come in such form that He might bear our sins57395739 Isa. liii. 4. and suffer pain for us; for it did not become Him in glory to bear our sins and suffer pain for us. But He also comes in glory, having prepared 57405740 Reading προευτρεπισός as the Vetus Inter. the disciples through that epiphany of His which has no form nor beauty; and, having become as they that they might become as He, “conformed to the image of His glory,”57415741 Rom. viii. 29. since He formerly became conformed to “the body of our humiliation,”57425742 Phil. iii. 21. when He “emptied Himself and took upon Him the form of a servant,”57435743 Phil. ii. 7. He is restored to the image of God and also makes them conformed unto it.

وأيضا

Standing by the Saviour.

for Jesus does not always come in His own kingdom when He comes, since to the newly initiated He is such that they might say, beholding the Word Himself not glorious nor great, but inferior to many among them, “We saw Him, and He had no form or beauty, but His form was dishonoured, defective compared with all the sons of men.”57625762 Isa. liii. 2, 3. And these things will be said by those who beheld His glory in connection with their own former times, when at first the Word as understood in the synagogue had no form nor beauty to them.

وأيضا

Jesus is a Lamb in Respect of His Human Nature.

If we enquire further into the significance of Jesus being pointed out by John, when he says, “This is the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world,” we may take our stand at the dispensation of the bodily advent of the Son of God in human life, and in that case we shall conceive the lamb to be no other than the man. For the man “was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb, dumb before his shearers,”49604960 Isa. liii. 7.

بل يقول في نفس رسالة رده على سيليسيس التي استشهد بها الراباي

Chapter LIV.

It was predicted, moreover, that some from among the Gentiles would come to the knowledge of Him (among whom the prophets are not included); and it had been declared that He would be seen in a form which is deemed dishonourable among men. The words of prophecy run thus: “Lo, my Servant shall have understanding, and shall be exalted and glorified, and raised exceedingly high. In like manner, many shall be astonished at Thee; so Thy form shall be in no reputation among men, and Thy glory among the sons of men. Lo, many nations shall marvel because of Him; and kings shall close their mouths: because they, to whom no message about Him was sent, shall see Him; and they who have not heard of Him, shall have knowledge of Him.”31743174 Cf. Isa. lii. 13–15 in the Septuagint version (Roman text). “Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed? We have reported, as a child before Him, as a root in a thirsty ground.

وأيضا

Chapter LXXV.

The language of Isaiah runs as follows, who prophesied regarding Him that He would come and visit the multitude, not in comeliness of form, nor in any surpassing beauty: “Lord, who hath believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed? He made announcement before Him, as a child, as a root in a thirsty ground. He has no form nor glory, and we beheld Him, and He had no form nor beauty; but His form was without 609honour, and inferior to that of the sons of men.”46704670 Cf. Isa. liii. 1–3 (LXX.). [See Bishop Pearson’s Exposition of the Creed, Art. II., note. S.]

وأيضا

Chapter LIV.

We all, like sheep, wandered from the way. A man wandered in his way, and the Lord delivered Him on account of our sins; and He, because of His evil treatment, opens not His mouth. As a sheep was He led to slaughter; and as a lamb before her shearer is dumb, so He opens not His mouth. In His humiliation His judgment was taken away. And who shall describe His generation? because His life is taken away from the earth; because of the iniquities of My people was He led unto death.”31753175 Cf. Isa. liii. 1–8 in the Septuagint version (Roman text).

وأيضا

Chapter XVI.

But besides, the prophecies which he introduces into his argument are very different from what the prophets actually foretold of Jesus Christ. For the prophecies do not foretell that God will be crucified, when they say of Him who should suffer, “We beheld Him, and He had no form or comeliness; but His form was dishonoured and marred more than the sons of men; He was a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief.”47024702 Isa. liii. 2, 3. Observe, then, how distinctly they say that it was a man who should endure these human sufferings.

أيضا

Chapter LIX.

And he goes on to say, that “Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails.” We ask him what he means by the expression, “was of no assistance to himself?” For if he means it to refer to want of virtue, we reply that He was of very great assistance. For He neither uttered nor committed anything that was improper, but was truly “led as a sheep to the slaughter, and was dumb as a lamb before the shearer;”33533353 Isa. liii. 7. and the Gospel testifies that He opened not His mouth.

وأيضا

Finally, on this account he has not only said, “Thou hast loved righteousness;” but he adds, “and Thou hast hated wickedness.” For to have hated wickedness is what the Scripture says of Him, that “He did no sin, neither was any guile found in His mouth,”21552155 Isa. liii. 9. and that “He was tempted in all things like as we are, without sin.”21562156 Heb. iv. 15.

وأيضا

Chapter LIV.

and we maintain that to overcome the love of life is to enjoy a great good. But when Celsus compares us to notorious criminals, who justly suffer punishment for their crimes, and does not shrink from placing so laudable a purpose as that which we set before us upon the same level with the obstinacy of criminals, he makes himself the brother and companion of those who accounted Jesus among criminals, fulfilling the Scripture, which saith, “He was numbered with transgressors.”49514951 Isa. liii. 12.