هل النبوة عن المتالم هي عن انسان سياتي في المستقبل ام شعب اسرائيل

[Mary Naeem]

هل النبوة عن المتالم هي عن انسان سياتي في المستقبل ام شعب اسرائيل ؟ اشعياء 53: 8

هل النبوة عن المتالم هي عن انسان سياتي في المستقبل ام شعب اسرائيل ؟ اشعياء 53: 8


Holy_bible_1



الشبهة



بحسب الأصل العبري للجزء الأخير من العدد الثامن فإن الكاتب قد اعلنها بكل وضوح لأي شخص ملم بالنص العبري للكتاب المقدس بأن الحديث عن العبد المتألم في الاصحاح انما هو حديث عن جماعة من الناس وليس فردا واحداً ، ويتضح ذلك من خلال استخدام الكاتب لصيغة الجمع في كلامه عنهم . فالنص العبري للعدد الثامن هو هكذا :



מֵעֹצֶר וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט לֻקָּח, וְאֶת-דּוֹרוֹ מִי יְשׂוֹחֵחַ: כִּי נִגְזַר מֵאֶרֶץ חַיִּים, מִפֶּשַׁע עַמִּי נֶגַע לָמוֹ.

وما يهمنا في هذا العدد هو الجزء الأخير منه : (( M’pesha ami nega lamo ))

وهو ما يجعل ترجمة الجزء انجليزياً هكذا :

" because of the transgression of my people they were wounded "

أي : " هم ضربوا من أجل اثم شعبي " أو " من أجل اثم شعبي لحق بهم الأذى "

وكتوضيح بسيط لصيغة الجمع هذه الواردة في العدد المذكور نقول :

ان الكلمة العبرية الواردة في العدد هي "lamoh " وهي عندما تسخدم في النص العبري للكتاب المقدس تعنى صيغة الجمع ( هم وليس هو ) ، ويمكن ان نجدها على سبيل المثال في المواضع التالية من أسفار الكتاب :

تكوين 9 : 26 ، تثنية 32 : 35 و 33 : 2 ، ايوب 6 : 19 و 14 : 21 و 24 : 17 ، المزامير 2 : 4 و 99 : 7 و 78 : 24 و 119 : 165 ، اشعيا 16 : 4 و23 : 1 و 44 : 7 و 48 : 21 ، مراثي أرميا 1 : 19 ، حبقوق 2 : 7



وبإمكانك – أخي القارىء – ان ترجع للنص العبري ان كنت ملماً به لتتأكد من هذا . وبالتأكيد فإنك لو رجعت للتراجم المسيحية المختلفة فإنك لن تجد هذا المعنى ....ذلك لأنهم لم يعتمدوا النص العبري المسوري في هذا الإصحاح . وبالتالي فإنه من الواضح جداً ان هذا العدد أيضاً لا يمكن ان ينطبق على المسيح عليه السلام



الرد



وكالعاده كان المشكك غير امين في شبهته وقال اشياء تدليسيه كثيره فلامو لا يعني ضربوا ولكن يعني لهم فالجمله نيجا لامو هي بعد من اجل ذنب شعبي ضرب لهم

53: 8 من الضغطة و من الدينونة اخذ و في جيله من كان يظن انه قطع من ارض الاحياء انه ضرب من اجل ذنب شعبي

ولتاكيد ذلك

اولا هو ركز علي كلمة في العبري واعطي معني خطأ فهو قال علي لاموه انها تعني ضرب والحقيقه هذا خطأ تماما فكلمة ضرب هي نيجا وهي في هذا العدد بالمفرد

H5061
נגע
nega‛
neh'-gah
From H5060; a blow (figuratively infliction); also (by implication) a spot (concretely a leprous person or dress): - plague, sore, stricken, stripe, stroke, wound.

ضرب اصيب ضرب جرح ...

ولكن المشكك ادعي ان كلمة لامو هي التي تعني ضربوا وهذا خطأ شديد لان كلمة لاموا التي تعني لهم لا تعني ضربوا

Translation results for: למו
לָמוֹמילת יחס
(biblical) to them, of them, them


والامثلة التي قدمها

تكوين 9: 26

وقال مبارك الرب اله سام. وليكن كنعان عبدا لهم.
.................................................. ..............................
בראשית 9:26 Hebrew OT: BHS (Consonants Only)
.................................................. ..............................
ויאמר ברוך יהוה אלהי שם ויהי כנען עבד למו׃

كنعان بالمفرد عبدا بالمفرد ( لامو ) لهم فهذا المثل ضده لان كنعان لم يضرب ولاموا لا تفيد ان كنعان ابن حام هو بالجمع

التثنية 33:2 Arabic: Smith & Van Dyke
.................................................. ..............................
فقال. جاء الرب من سيناء واشرق لهم من سعير وتلألأ من جبل فاران وأتى من ربوات القدس وعن يمينه نار شريعة لهم.
.................................................. ..............................
דברים 33:2 Hebrew OT: BHS (Consonants Only)
.................................................. ..............................
ויאמר יהוה מסיני בא וזרח משעיר למו הופיע מהר פארן ואתה מרבבת קדש מימינו [כ אשדת] [ק אש] [ק דת] למו׃
.................................................. ..............................

العدد جائت به كلمة لامو مرتين اولا اشرق لهم فهو بالمفرد وايضا العدد يقول عن يمينه نار شريعه لهم . فالرب بالمفرد ويمينه مفرد ونار مفرد وشريعه مفرد ثم كلمة لاموا التي تعني لهم

وامثلة كثيره جدا تؤكد ان كلمة لاموا تعني لهم فقط

ولهذا قلت انه غير امين في شبهته اصلا

فتعبير نيجا لاموا تعني ضرب لاجلهم

والعدد يقول

سفر اشعياء 53

53: 8 من الضغطة و من الدينونة اخذ و في جيله من كان يظن انه قطع من ارض الاحياء انه ضرب من اجل ذنب شعبي

وهو يدعي ان العدد عبريا يجب ان يكون انهم ضربوا من اجل ذنب شعبي

العدد عربي لا يستقيم المعني لو جاء كما يدعي المشكك

فتخيل معي ان العدد كامل يقول

من الضغطة و من الدينونة اخذ و في جيله من كان يظن انه قطع من ارض الاحياء انهم ضربوا من اجل ذنب شعبي

فهل المعني والتركيب اللغوي يستقيم ؟

رغم ان هذا العدد جاء فيه اكثر من فعل

اخذ

قطع

ضرب

هذا بالاضافه ايضا الي الضمائر التي جائت ثلاث مرات

جيل ه

انه

انه

وكلهم للمفرد ولكن المشكك يدعي ان اخر ضمير واخر فعل هو للجمع



وندرسهم بالعبري ونري تصريف كل فعل وكل ضمير

מֵעֹצֶר וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט לֻקָּח וְאֶת־דֹּורֹו מִי יְשֹׂוחֵחַ כִּי נִגְזַר מֵאֶרֶץ חַיִּים מִפֶּשַׁע עַמִּי נֶגַע לָמֹו׃

ميعوتسير فميمشفات لوكاح فيئت دورو مي يسوحيح كي نيجزار ميايريس حييم مبيشع امي نيجاع لامو

والافعال

اخذ

لوكاح

verb, qal passive, passive, suffixed (perfect), singular, masculine, third person
فهو فعل تصريف مبني للمجهول للمفرد مذكر



قطع

نيجزار

verb, nifal, passive, suffixed (perfect), singular, masculine, third person
ايضا تصريف هذا الفعل في العبري للمفرد



والفعل الثالث والمهم وهو ضرب

نيجا

נגע

common, singular, masculine, normal
ويتفاجأ المشكك بان تدليسه اتكشف لان تصريف الكلمه هنا هو مذكر مفرد

واكرر للمفرد المذكر

ولتاكيد ذلك ان التصريف هو نطق من المصدر فهو ثلاث حروف فقط ( نون وجمل واين ) بدون اي اضافات لتعبر عن الجمع مثل جمع المذكر ايم باضافة يود ميم او جمع مؤنث اوت باضافة فاف تاف او لم يوضع اي حرف اخر يدل علي الجمع كما ادعي.

فما قاله المشكك فهو بالفعل كذب وتدليس

والضمير الذي جاء مع ضرب

הוא (#2 (AF)): his/him | AFAT
pronoun, suffixed, singular, masculine, third person
وايضا يكشف المشكك وهو مفرد مذكر

فاين الذي ادعاه المشكك انه بالجمع والمترجمون اخطؤا ؟



واقدم الترجمات الانجليزي التي هي مرجعيتها النص العبري

اولا السبعينية


(ABP+) InG1722 theG3588 humiliation,G5014 in G3588 his equity,G2920 G1473 he was lifted away.G142 G3588 [3his generationG1074 G1473 1WhoG5100 2shall describe]?G1334 ForG3754 [2was lifted awayG142 3fromG575 4theG3588 5earthG1093 G3588 1his life].G2222 G1473 Because ofG575 theG3588 lawless deedsG458 G3588 of my peopleG2992 G1473 he was ledG71 untoG1519 death.G2288

(ABP-G+) ενG1722 τηG3588 ταπεινωσειG5014 ηG3588 κρισις αυτουG2920 G1473 ηρθηG142 τηνG3588 γενεαν αυτουG1074 G1473 τιςG5100 διηγησεταιG1334 οτιG3754 αιρεταιG142 αποG575 τηςG3588 γηςG1093 ηG3588 ζωη αυτουG2222 G1473 αποG575 τωνG3588 ανομιωνG458 τουG3588 λαου μουG2992 G1473 ηχθηG71 ειςG1519 θανατονG2288

(Brenton) In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken away from the earth: because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death.

(AKJ) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(BBE) They took away from him help and right, and who gave a thought to his fate? for he was cut off from the land of the living: he came to his death for the sin of my people.

(VW) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.

(Bishops) From the prison and iudgement was he taken, and his generation who can declare? for he was cut of from the grounde of the lyuyng, which punishment dyd go vpon hym for the transgression of my people.

(CEV) He was condemned to death without a fair trial. Who could have imagined what would happen to him? His life was taken away because of the sinful things my people had done.

(CJB) After forcible arrest and sentencing, he was taken away; and none of his generation protested his being cut off from the land of the living for the crimes of my people, who deserved the punishment themselves.

(CLV) From restraint and from judgment is He taken, and on His generation, who shall meditate? For He was severed from the land of the living; because of the transgression of My people was He touched by death."

(clVulgate) De angustia, et de judicio sublatus est. Generationem ejus quis enarrabit? quia abscissus est de terra viventium: propter scelus populi mei percussi eum.

(Darby) He was taken from oppression and from judgment; and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(DRB) He was taken away from distress, and from judgment: who shall declare his generation? because he is cut off out of the land of the living: for the wickedness of my people have I struck him.

(ESV) By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?

(ERV) He was taken away by force and judged unfairly. The people of his time did not even notice that he was killed. But he was put to death for the sins of his people.

(Geneva) Hee was taken out from prison, and from iudgement: and who shall declare his age? For he was cut out of the lande of the liuing: for the transgression of my people was he plagued.

(GNB) He was arrested and sentenced and led off to die, and no one cared about his fate. He was put to death for the sins of our people.

(GW) He was arrested, taken away, and judged. Who would have thought that he would be removed from the world? He was killed because of my people's rebellion.

(HCSB-r) He was taken away because of oppression and judgment;
and who considered His fate?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
He was struck because of My people's rebellion.

(csb) He was taken away because of oppression and judgment;
and who considered His fate?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
He was struck because of My people's rebellion.

(IAV) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(ISRAV) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(JST) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(JOSMTH) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(KJ2000) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(KJV) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(KJV-1611) He was taken from prison, and from iudgement: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the liuing, for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(KJV21) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people was He stricken.

(KJVA) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(LBP) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who can describe his anguish? For he was cut off out of the land of the living; and some of the evil men of my people struck him.

(Lamsa) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who can describe his anguish? For he was cut off out of the land of the living; and some of the evil men of my people struck him.

(LITV) He was taken from prison and from justice; and who shall consider His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; from the transgression of My people, the stroke was to Him.

(LXX) ἐν τῇ ταπεινώσει ἡ κρίσις αὐτοῦ ἤρθη· τὴν γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται; ὅτι αἴρεται ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς ἡ ζωὴ αὐτοῦ, ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνομιῶν τοῦ λαοῦ μου ἤχθη εἰς θάνατον.

(MKJV) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.

(NCV) Men took him away roughly and unfairly. He died without children to continue his family. He was put to death; he was punished for the sins of my people.

(NET.) He was led away after an unjust trial — but who even cared? Indeed, he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the rebellion of his own people he was wounded.

(NET) He was led away after an unjust trial22 — but who even cared?23 Indeed, he was cut off from the land of the living; 24 because of the rebellion of his own25 people he was wounded.

(NAB-A) Oppressed and condemned, he was taken away, and who would have thought any more of his destiny? When he was cut off from the land of the living, and smitten for the sin of his people,

(NIV) By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

(NIVUK) By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

(NKJV) He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.


(NLT) From prison and trial they led him away to his death. But who among the people realized that he was dying for their sins—that he was suffering their punishment?

(NLV) He was taken away as a prisoner and then judged. Who among the people of that day cared that His life was taken away from the earth? He was hurt because of the sin of the people who should have been punished.

(NWT) Because of restraint and of judgment he was taken away; and who will concern himself even with [the details of] his generation? For he was severed from the land of the living ones. Because of the transgression of my people he had the stroke.

(RNKJV) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(RV) By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living? for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(TMB) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people was He stricken.

(TNIV) By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.

(UPDV) By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and who considered his generation? For he was cut off out of the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people he was stricken to death.

(Vulgate) de angustia et de iudicio sublatus est generationem eius quis enarrabit quia abscisus est de terra viventium propter scelus populi mei percussit eum

(Webster) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off from the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

(YLT) By restraint and by judgment he hath been taken, And of his generation who doth meditate, That he hath been cut off from the land of the living? By the transgression of My people he is plagued,
فهل المشكك افضل من كل هذه التراجم ليدعي انه هو الوحيد الذي فهم ان العدد بالجمع رغم انه عن المفرد ؟



والسبعينيه قبل الميلاد


(LXX) ἐν τῇ ταπεινώσει ἡ κρίσις αὐτοῦ ἤρθη· τὴν γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται; ὅτι αἴρεται ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς ἡ ζωὴ αὐτοῦ, ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνομιῶν τοῦ λαοῦ μου ἤχθη εἰς θάνατον.


(ABP+) InG1722 theG3588 humiliation,G5014 in G3588 his equity,G2920 G1473 he was lifted away.G142 G3588 [3his generationG1074 G1473 1WhoG5100 2shall describe]?G1334 ForG3754 [2was lifted awayG142 3fromG575 4theG3588 5earthG1093 G3588 1his life].G2222 G1473 Because ofG575 theG3588 lawless deedsG458 G3588 of my peopleG2992 G1473 he was ledG71 untoG1519 death.G2288

(ABP-G+) ενG1722 τηG3588 ταπεινωσειG5014 ηG3588 κρισις αυτουG2920 G1473 ηρθηG142 τηνG3588 γενεαν αυτουG1074 G1473 τιςG5100 διηγησεταιG1334 οτιG3754 αιρεταιG142 αποG575 τηςG3588 γηςG1093 ηG3588 ζωη αυτουG2222 G1473 αποG575 τωνG3588 ανομιωνG458 τουG3588 λαου μουG2992 G1473 ηχθηG71 ειςG1519 θανατονG2288

(Brenton) In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken away from the earth: because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death.
وايضا ترجمته بانه لاجل ذنوب شعبي وضع هو للموت



ونلاحظ ان العدد حتي في العربي لا يستقيم معناه لو كان الكلمه هم ضربوا بدل هو

فتخيل معي ان العدد كامل يقول

من الضغطة و من الدينونة اخذ و في جيله من كان يظن انه قطع من ارض الاحياء انه ضربوا من اجل ذنب شعبي

فهل المعني والتركيب اللغوي يستقيم ؟



والملاحظه المهمه ان العدد فرق بين نوعين الاول هو المضروب والمسحوق الذي يقطع من ارض الاحياء ويضرب ويموت وكله بالمفرد

والنوع الثاني هو شعب اسرائيل الذي يحدث كل هذا للمسيح ويتحمل كل هذا لاجل شعب اسرائيل

والمشكك فقط باسلوب ملتوي يريد ان يوحي ان النبوة عن شعب اسرائيل ولكن ماذا سيقول عن تعبير انه ضرب من اجل ذنب شعبي ؟

فهل سيستمر في اصراره ان النبوه يقصد بها شعب اسرائيل وليس المسيح ؟



والمجد لله دائما

[الصخره]

توبيك رائع ومميز جدا

[Mary Naeem]

شكرا على المرور